as we did after they drove the soviets out in the early '90s or late '80s, but as a message to the taliban or neighbors we're not walking away either. >> you were around for the iraq war and around for much of the war in afghanistan, so i feel like you have a pretty good feel on what enough forces would be. is 3,000 too little? do you have any sense of that? >> i guess the way i would put it just instinctively, i strongly believe 3,000 is too little and 30,000 is too many. >> somewhere between 3,000 and 30,000? >> finding the goldilocks number. when i say 30,000 is too many, i think first of all in terms of cost for us, but also in terms of the tolerance of the afghans themselves. it's more a political question than it is a military question. >> and finally, we're coming up to the state of the union. you know how this works, everybody wants to hear a certain thing, depending on which department you're in. from the point of view of the military and the world at large and america's place in it, what do you look for when the president gives this speech on tuesday? >> well, it's -- it's hard t